Pile of Scrap Ep. 19: ISRI Convention Mastermind – Chuck Carr
If there’s one thing the Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries (ISRI) is known for, it’s their conventions. Chuck Carr, mastermind behind the industry’s biggest event of the year, talks with John Sacco about the significant benefits ISRI’s conventions can bring to your business. Although networking is number one on that list, the keynote speakers and the educational programs make it a guarantee that this event won’t disappoint.
Watch this episode of Pile of Scrap here.
Chuck Carr and John Sacco
Introduction: The following is an original audio series from Sierra International Machinery with your host John Sacco.
John Sacco: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Pile of Scrap. And today, I'm with Chuck Carr. Everything convention ISRI – Chuck Carr.
Chuck Carr: Thank you very much for the opportunity.
John: Chuck, you know what, thanks for being here. Thanks for coming on. You know, I find the ISRI convention for Sierra is the most important show we do all year, okay?
John: As a former chairman of ISRI – to understand the workings of – it's really an amazing feat and you have taken this convention to whole ‘nother levels. So, my first question to you is – give us a brief background to all the events you deal with at ISRI besides the convention and everything in that respect.
Chuck: Well, in the process, John's only telling part of the story because he's been a convention – or ISRI Chair. He's been involved in the workings of the convention before, so he knows a lot of the background here that we'll probably talk about. I came to work for ISRI in 2003 to do Communications and immediately picked up the convention and membership and several other departments that all were sort of interrelated and began working on ways that we could start building a convention that better met the needs of the – of the ISRI members, working with John and with his predecessors. And, we've been able to take a convention that, well, my first year was, do you remember the Mirage Hotel?
Chuck: So, we were in the Mirage in a 90,000 square foot ballroom and fit every exhibitor we had in that 90,000 square feet.
John: And, today we are what?
Chuck: Today, we're in a 360,000 gross square foot space.
John: Four times the size.
Chuck: More than four times the size, actually. And, it's a little bit more than 360,000. More than that, we sold out a space in January this year.
John: We need more space.
Chuck: We need more people and we need more space.
John: Well, that's awesome. So, you come on to Communications and then all of a sudden you sunk your teeth into convention and then it's been your child at staff. You run the convention. You get everything: the numbers and all that. Tell us from your first convention that you ran to today, the dramatic changes in the convention itself. Besides floor space. What other things?
Chuck: Well, you know, I think the diamond dynamics of it that have changed have been more about the people who come to the convention than the convention itself. And, each year we're trying to do a better job in meeting the needs of the clients who come to the convention. This – you're putting your money on the line to come as an exhibitor or as an attendee. And so, we're trying to build a product that's better for you. Back in 2003, the entire industry was a little bit different. It was – it was far more metals-heavy than our membership is today.
Chuck: It was more family businesses than it was…
Chuck: Corporate or publicly held companies. A lot of people who came to the convention came and used it also is their Spring vacation. Uh, so the, the networking, not only a business networking, but social networking that, uh, came about between these people who'd been meeting every year was what was most important. Um, that was also really easy to do when you were in one hotel and everybody was staying together throughout the entire time.
John: We’re too big for one hotel, right? The Mandalay Bay in Vegas where we're having the convention this year. Okay, the convention center itself, we're about almost ma–we got room to grow there, right?
Chuck: Got room to grow.
John: ‘Til we have to go to a convention center there.
John: Okay. So, tell us about the rooms, the devolution – how many rooms – where are we when, way back when, to how many rooms are we now?
Chuck: Well, it's going to surprise you that the actual contract we have is not substantially larger. We used to block rooms at about 12 or 1300 rooms on the peak night that were there and now we're up around 2000. Um, the reason for that is that again, with our audience, we've seen an audience that used to want to have all of us staying in the same kind of room at about the same price point to an audience that's now more diverse in who comes both in the kinds of commodities that they handle, their position within the company. And so, we have a need for a high-end Four Seasons hotel. We have a need for the product that we get with the, with the Mandalay Bay in the Delano, which is four star quality, good, great hotels. Uh, we also have those that need to come for a budget hotel.
Chuck: Luxor really works in Las Vegas because the Luxor is literally connected to the building.
John: And they take the monorail over.
Chuck: This year, the, uh, the price for the prime nights of the convention are actually in double digits, not triple digits. Uh…
John: That's amazing.
Chuck: You can get a hotel with the resort fee, uh, for under a hundred dollars a night for most of the nights that we’re there. So, if you're looking for a way to come to ISRI’s convention and save money, not only are we trying to keep our prices down for the convention, but we're also trying to find ways to make the entire travel experience cheaper too.
John: Now, people are coming from all over the all over the world. How many countries will be represented this year at the convention?
Chuck: Well, that's actually another major change in the convention. And, that in the early 2000s, we were lucky to get 6% or 7% of our attendees from overseas. Uh, now in a normal year, we're between 17% and 20% of the attendance is coming from outside of the United States. That includes Canada, but from outside the United States. Um, so that, that number grows, um, every year as the convention itself has become something that's not just a family trip for ISRI members, but it's become the show that the recycling industry has to go to every year.
John: So, workshops. Okay, let's talk about workshops because there's so many different commodities. How many different workshops will be held this year?
Chuck: This year we'll have somewhere between 50 and 60 workshops. That includes the spotlight sessions that are commodity-based, that will include a series of programs is talking about workforce development and all the issues that everyone in this industry is having right now, finding good employees.
John: Oh, that, that, that… Everybody I've talked to, same thing. And, and it doesn't mean just the scrap metal industry or the recycling industry. Oil field service companies, where in Bakersfield, where we are… Agriculture… Nobody finding people. Not even at 3.5% unemployment, we're almost at the bottom of the barrel. Everybody's got a job.
Chuck: Yeah. It's – it's a challenge because everybody's looking for the same, uh, talent base that's out there. Um, the perception of our industry as a – as a scrap recycling industry is not necessarily one that people see in – in ivory towers. Uh, so it's really important that we understand what our product is, that we understand how we can sell that product to the millennial today, to the young people who are now looking at perhaps what good alternatives are out there other than going to college.
John: What workshop are you most excited about? That it's going to hit for the millennials, that that's not so traditional for what we have been? But, what workshop are you really excited that the millennials get to go to and get really good take home value?
Chuck: Well, I want to turn it, this one's going to turn it on its head. This is going to be, uh, an opportunity that's going to change the face of the convention going forward. And, that is on Thursday morning of the convention. April 30th, we're doing what we call is ISRI Talks. It's based a lot like the – the TED talks that… That all of us have seen on YouTube.
Chuck: Uh, we're going to bring in five, uh, ISRI members, actually four ISRI members and one employee who are going to have little 10 to 12-minute stories about themselves, ideas on that they have that will change the face of recycling. And, it goes from one individual who's going to talk about her work, uh, with her family's recycling company and her work in the music industry and she's going to talk about how music throughout the years has made massive changes in the way the public reacts to certain issues. And, and we'll tie then from there between how music and recycling can work together to improve recycling rates. We'll have others that are going to talk about, um, how plastics recycling in third world countries is improving the economy of the country at the same time. But, it's becoming a profitable business in those areas.
John: And cleaning up the pollution that plastic that we not… All right. So, I get asked a lot, how are the keynote speakers chosen? So, so as a former Chair, I have my response, but tell us how are the, the keynote speakers chosen?
Chuck: Well, in a former life I worked for a member of Congress and you've all heard the saying that you don't want to see the laws made because they're made much the same way as you make sausage. It's better just to taste it than to see it made. Sometimes that's the case with keynote speakers as well. At ISRI, it's always been the tradition that choosing the keynote speaker is the prerogative of the Chair.
John: It was when I was Chairman.
Chuck: And still is now. The Chair’s obviously have talked to a lot of people in the industry and they want to find out, uh, who they should select and get a lot of advice from a lot of people. Um, through the years we've had some of just about everything. Uh, ISRI has had every former President back to Ronald Reagan as a speaker at one time in both parties.
John: Ronald Reagan was the keynote – first keynote speaker I ever saw in Los Angeles. And I thought it was the coolest thing to have a former President on stage. And, Richard Abrams introduced him and I said – I said to myself, “Boy, I hope I do that one day.” And, that dream came true for me when I had former President Bush and George Adams before me had former President N+Bill Clinton. So, that's really cool. And I, you know, to be able to be with a former President of the United States. How come we don't have Obama yet?
Chuck: Well, um, there's a couple of reasons we haven't had Obama yet. One has to do just with the political atmosphere of the world anymore. Um, it's more and more challenging to get people to recognize that the value that ISRI has of having every former President, uh, on the stage, regardless of what their political philosophy is. We began to see it really with, uh, even Bill Clinton and George Bush and later Hillary Clinton, uh, where folks of the opposing political philosophy would, uh, protest pretty heavily that we were spending money bringing in these speakers.
John: That – Okay, that's my point. That the – I call it the battle of the politics, the member’s threats. You know, when George brought in Bill Clinton, I remember the emails and the letters, we're going to resign our membership. “If you bring that guy in… He did more of the destroy the...” Same thing when George W. Bush came in, we had, if you didn't like Bush, “Oh, we're going to resign. How dare you bring in this guy? He did this…” And Jerry Sims, same thing when he brought in Hillary Clinton. So, you know, at having been Chairman, I think it's just crazy people would resign a membership. Whether you believe or whether you are with or against the ideology of the former President, it's still a former President. They’ve got something to say. Hear it.
Chuck: They understand that we're in – in this world, in this country, and in our business, we are all working now in a global marketplace. What happens in Peoria, Illinois can impact what's happening in Cambodia. What's happening in Central Africa can – can affect what's happening in Bakersfield, California.
Chuck: So to the extent that we can learn from those who have played on that world stage, our industry is stronger as well, regardless of what party you're talking to.
John: I agree. Well, I can't imagine, though, Obama's cheap.
John: I gotta imagine he's very expensive.
Chuck: Nor were any of the others that we know.
John: But, I would imagine that the growth of the speaker fee has got to be enormous now.
Chuck: Well, in fact, that's true of any of the speakers. I – the kind of inflation that we've seen in keynote speakers across the board, whether from entertainment or from business or from politics, uh, it has grown substantially. And, then you add to that, um, the atmosphere which is causing more and more need for higher levels of security, which we've even experienced that our own convention.
Chuck: Uh, it raises the cost. So, not only is the fee a lot higher, the operational cost of having a former President is substantial.
John: Yeah, I’m sure it did. Well, I remember the Secret Service with George W. Bush having been in the room behind stage, if you call it the green room and how many secret service people and Bill Clinton say… That's a lot of money. There's a lot of people involved. So, I understand. So, who this year's keynote speakers? Tell us about it.
Chuck: Well, we have two keynote speakers this year. We have first: Gary Vaynerchuk. And for any of you who follow podcasts probably also follow social media. And, I would be surprised if you don't know who Gary V. is. He is a marketing guru who took his family's small business and turned it into a couple of million dollar business into a hundreds of million dollar business. He has taken that, uh, his philosophy and his operations in social media. And, uh, shared it with the rest of the world. Uh, I venture to say that our younger audience is gonna know these – who this guy is, they're going to know how they can take his work and apply it to their company and improve their own company's position.
John: Well, I will tell you this: up to a year ago, I wasn't on social media and I saw a video with Gary and he talked about the iPhone and if you're not posting, you're irrevelant. And I thought to myself, “could that be possibly true?” And so I dove in and he's 100% correct. So, he's going to have an interesting message because my generation and a little older, we're still fighting social media.
John: The younger ones aren't and they're all in. So, I think he's going to be, and who's the other keynote speaker?
Chuck: The other keynote speaker is a woman by the name of Renee Melbourne. She's, uh, an economist – world recognized economist – and the author of a book called Blue Ocean Strategy – coauthor. Um, where she talks about how your business models can change depending on the, the markets that you're in. And, she bases this. I'm going to be very oversimplified, but believe me, she's worth hearing. Um, essentially, many of us in our industries today are operating in a red ocean. We're going dog eat dog, dog, fish, dog fish, uh, against our competitors and creating a lot of blood in the water and the process.
Chuck: Um, you're why you're helping yourself, you're also hurting yourself fighting all this time.
Chuck: So her, her concept here is to try and find ways to find blue ocean to do, to work in, find new markets, find new products, find new ways that you can stand out as the only operator in a new market. Um, it's exciting and exciting way to look at your business and an exciting way to get you thinking about how your business can be more than it is today when you open tomorrow morning.
John: Well, I think that's always been the backbone of the recycling industry. You know, my father was recycling used bags and then did radiators and then batteries and now it became scrap, you know, and then paper and plastic. So, it's always everything has evolved. Our industry has evolved quite a bit. And this should be a good spee–uh, I'm looking forward to hearing her. Well, I love the convention. The convention is great. You know how many people this year we think we're going to have?
Chuck: We're going to have a little over 5,000. Ideally we're going to have around 5,400. Um, John can tell you that, uh, one of my hobbies in this convention is trying to keep up with the numbers and I'll typically make a prediction six weeks out or so on how many we'll have and we'll see how close I get to.
John: What's your closest call?
Chuck: I missed it by two one year, so. Sometimes I miss it by a great deal more. Uh, we're, we're recording this a little early so I'm not quite ready to say yet.
John: You're not ready to give us your final prediction.
Chuck: I do you think we're going to meet the budget though, so.
John: Oh, well that's always important for ISRI. You know, the convention – look, from the exhibit hall, which has so much information and, and people, you know, from our recycling facility, we will have a team of people. Our safety directors and they'll be gone, they'll go through it. They almost can't get through it now.
John: And, then of course we're exhibiting with Sierra booth on the machine. So, it's, it's busy for us, but very informational and, and the take home value has always been there. You can't come to ISRI and not have take home value, in my opinion.
Chuck: The best way to make the best use of the convention now, however, is to try – don't try to do it by yourself. This is a large elephant and you need several people chewing on it. Bring a couple of your key employees, bring one more than you brought last year and you're going to take home more return on investment than you did the year before.
John: Well, I’ve seen it at Sierra where – like last year, we brought in… We had our three safety people here and, uh, two – our Ops Manager and two other people. And, they had tremendous take home value that we implemented at Sierra that helped us be a more efficient recycler. So, look, I'm a big advocate for it. Obviously, I guess I'm the choir, Chuck, but I think it's crazy. If you're in the recycling industry and you don't come to ISRI, I think that's just a bad decision.
Chuck: Well, and the stories that you hear are pretty amazing. Not only are you there for what is the best trade show in the world in the recycling industry… Uh, not only are you there to hear keynote speakers who are either going to educate you or entertain you, or both. Regardless of who's on that stage, I assure you they're going to be programs worth seeing. Uh, not only are you going to find education sessions that you can implement in your facilities every day. I can't tell you how many times I hear stories from members who say, I was sitting at the bar in the middle of the casino at two o'clock in the morning talking to three people and somebody said something that sparked an idea in my head and now my company is making $20 million more than it did last year.
John: The power of communication, power of meeting people. So, what's the future of an ISRI convention going to be like, Chuck? What change? What do you see? Let's look into the future. What's going to change about ISRI?
Chuck: Well, several things have changed, obviously, in the last 15 years as we’ve grown. We've found ourselves somewhat limited in the number of facilities we can use around the country. Uh, and that our – our show – the equipment show was very heavy. So, we have to have facilities that can take these large machines and then we'd like to show up. Uh, and uh, that can take these machines indoors. Um, we have to find facilities that have the hotels and the air lift that we need to provide a good quality product. So, uh, I predict we are going to continue to grow, perhaps not at the rate we did during the last decade, but we're going to see the show get larger. We're going to see the number of people who come to the show get larger. We're going to have to understand that our audience is changing. There are going to be fewer and fewer of those of us in our fifties and sixties that are at the meeting and more and more of those who were in their twenties, thirties and forties and their expectations are different, their definition of ROI is different. And if we're not constantly looking for ways to make this convention a better product for the customer that's paying to come, then it will die. And, I won't let that happen.
John: No, I don't think it will because I think we have just too many smart people and the members – there's a lot of young, powerfully strong intellectual people and the young youth that are coming in that are going to help drive that. So, what other events? So, of course ISRI 2020, Las Vegas. Um, what are the dates? April…
Chuck: Uh, this year's dates are 27th through the 30th of April.
John: Okay. So, what other ISRI events should our members are people who listen to this podcast need to come to? What other, you know, besides the ISRI convention, what other events does ISRI have – that you put on – that are very important for education purposes?
Chuck: I'm going to tell people that to take the lesson from Gary Vaynerchuk here and keep up with our social media, keep up with our website. This is where you'll find more of this information going forward. The easy ones to talk about are the education and training programs that we put on. We have the Commodities Roundtable program that's in Chicago in September every year. Uh, it's a place where you can get a great snapshot of the markets, um, world markets as well as commodities markets across the, uh, um, the spectrum. We'll have speakers that are coming from around the world to help give you that information. Uh, we do, um, more blue collar programs, operational yard programs like the shredder operations forum. We do twice yearly meetings with the, um, ISRI safety and environmental council where we bring in the experts of, uh, the safety managers and the environmental managers of facilities.
John: Well with Sierra always says that, you know, I think the ISEC meetings ISRI – Safety Environmental Council – ISEC – I think if you're in this industry and you don't send somebody there, um, I think that's a mistake. Safety, look, our industry is inherently dangerous, right? And we're the one, the number fifth deadliest industry out there and the ISEC meeting brings safety professionals together who share stories of things that have happened and then prevention – accident prevention and best management practices that really – it's helping Sierra, our interaction, our safety people always come back with something more positive to implement at Sierra. And I think that's a very important – those two meetings a year. I think we need to, as ISRI, you know, you say go to social media… Those are, those are two meetings I think every company – if you have an operation in this, in the recycling industry, you need to have somebody attending those meetings.
Chuck: It is low cost. They're always conveniently located somewhere in the central area of the country. And, if you want to learn from the experts, go to the experts, go to the people who are managing our safety issues and our environmental issues every day in the yards and in the, in the plants. And, that's where you're going to learn, uh, how to better do your job at home.
John: All right. Design me Chuck Carr’s perfect convention. If money was no object, tell me what – how you would do a convention. I just, you know, you've been around and I know in the back of your head you're like, “Ooh, I wish I could do this. Chuck, tell me your perfect convention for the fun of it.
Chuck: Well, that's actually my – one of my goals before I've retire from ISRI is to try and make, make it just a little better yet. Uh, you know what, we're on track to get there. Uh, we even heard that this week in the meetings that we're having here in Nashville from, from folks that said “For the last 15 years, you've been building the best quality product in the industry and, uh, whatever you do, don't mess it up.” So, uh, that's absolutely the case. What I want to do is have a meeting that, uh, could be perhaps just a little shorter.
Chuck: That could provide even more opportunities for networking between the folks that are there so that they can learn from each other. We've done a great job by the way of adding to that over the years. Today, if you come to an ISRI convention, you have an opportunity to network from 6:00 in the morning until midnight every night in ISRI sponsored events. It's not just going out to dinner with friends. You can start with the fun run in the morning. You can come through all of the workshops. You can come through all the exhibit hall and then you can come to after hours programs in the evening and meet new people who do what you do.
John: So, you're building the perfect convention. It's not quite…
Chuck: It’s under construction.
John: All right, well, all right.
Chuck: It's under construction.
John: I want to know, though, Chuck, when you said this is the perfect convention, I want to know, okay.
Chuck: If and when we ever get there, you'll be the first to know.
John: All right. So, you know, over the years, you know, history conventions have brought some interesting sideshows and stuff that we've had. Tell us something that you'll never forget about in history show – convention.
Chuck: Well, you know, the one that comes to mind more often, thing else is Hillary Clinton. Um, we had Hillary Clinton in 2014.
John: Right before she announced running for President.
Chuck: Just like days before she announced she was running for President. Um, why did we have her? we mentioned earlier about having former Presidents. We've also had nearly every former Secretary of State…
John: Yes, we have. Um, and more than that, if you think about it politically, she was one of the leading candidates for the job if she'd won, it wasn’t such a bad idea of having known somebody in the White House.
John: No, no. Absolutely. So, what would – tell us the story though.
Chuck: So, the story that comes about, she's a – as we negotiated all of her contracts, there was a strict rule in there that we couldn't have any press in the room. And then the week before the show was to happen, her campaign folks came to us and said, we want to actually have press there. Can we open it up? So, the ISRI commission in 2014 was the first time that we had TV cameras, uh, in the show as she was beginning to speak. Um, to make a long story short, she was a little late getting on stage that day. We'd finished all of our programming and we had this little five-minute lull with nothing going on. Well, if you ever have a whole bunch of people in a room, everyone was about who wants to get out and go to the bathroom during and make a phone call. I said, “Fine, give me a minute, uh, before you, um, bring her on stage, so get everybody back in.” Well, she came on a little faster than we thought she would and we didn't have the doors closed. All of a sudden this woman blows through the doors, comes running down the aisle and throws a shoe at Hillary Clinton. Now, if you think I'm lying, you can probably go on YouTube and find…
John: No, I was there, Chuck. The shoe flew over my head and had papers in it. I thought it was a big bird because the way the papers fla–That's a true story. That, that's crazy. I forgot about that until you just brought that up. I was there, that shoe flew over my head, my wife and I went, what the heck? So, I got a story. So, when I was a Chair-elect, uh, George Adams had, uh, Bill Clinton and my job after the speech was to go back and escort the President from the camera room where everybody takes the photographs to behind stage. So, when I got off stage, he was already there and I said, well, I gotta talk to this guy. So, my wife's name is Monica, okay. So, you know, Mr. President, my wife Monica is still one of my favorite stories. But, here's where the story gets funny. So, my wife's behind stage too. So, I go, “Come on, let's go talk to the President.” She just goes, “No, no, no. Come on.” So, we start talking to president Clinton. Nicest dude you ever met. He was really a cool cat.
Chuck: Very charming individual.
John: And, so right before he goes on stage, I'll do my Clinton imitate–he goes, “Well hey now, I've got to go read that stock to you.” My wife says, “Oh no, you can't go.” His tie was cra–she reaches up to straighten his tie, he steps back like this, Secret Service guy walks up and I'm going, “Oh my God.” And, then he looks at Monica and he goes, “Well hey, make sure I’m not all frazzled before I go out on stage.” So, there was my wife fixing his tie, jacket, shirt, combs his hair, pats him on the back says, “Okay, you can go.” And, I'm like, “Nobody's gonna – nobody's gonna believe this. No way.”
Chuck: It happens. I have no – I'm not at all surprised about that.
John: Yeah, no, that was great. I mean, I'll never forget when, also, when I went to give my speech, I was behind stage before it and the energy in the crowd, you know, the first time we'd had a President and a bunch of years, I was scared to death and I mumbled during my speech, I was so scared. That's how – it was a lot of fun. Any other fun stories you to, uh, talk about?
Chuck: Well, it's always fun with the big speakers that are out there. You remember when Madeline Albright was with us?
Chuck: Back in… It has been several years ago now. Uh, she was one of the nicest people we ever had there. People didn't know whether to call her Madam Secretary or what. She said, “Just call me Madeline.” But, her advanced person was one of the most uptight people I've ever met in my entire life. We're getting ready to start the show. I mean, literally in the ten second countdown before the music starts. And, this woman gets up on the stage to do something behind the podium. And uh, John will remember, we used to have our own producer on the sh–
John: Oh, Beth.
Chuck: Beth took no crap off anybody.
Chuck: And so, suddenly Beth looks up and sees this woman climbing up on the stage just as it’s about to start and looked like a linebacker for the Green Bay Packers tackling her off the stage. The stuff that happens backstage while you're seeing this really professional production, there's a lot of fun going on backstage.
John: Well, you know, I've had the pleasure – Look, I was with President Bush, President Clinton, Secretary, uh, Madeline Albright – I sat at the same table with her in the audience, uh, Condoleezza Rice – which she was amazing. She was so cool. Stanley McChrystal, uh, Alan Dershowitz, uh, Malcolm…
John: Gladwell. I mean, a plethora of people I've got to meet – General Franks, uh, Tommy Frank. Amazing stuff. So, I think, you know, people – you know, that's another reason I always say get involved because when you get involved and you become an officer at ISRI, you're going to meet these people and you're going to have special one-on-ones with them. I think, uh, that's half the fun. I mean, that's what drove it for me.
Chuck: And that’s one of the other pitches I'd like to make even at this meeting. We're recording this at the ISRI Winter meetings in Nashville, Tennessee. It's middle of February. It's where the Board meets, where committees meet. There's about 160 people that are at this meeting. This meeting is open and free to every single ISRI member to come and participate, to be a part of making the decisions about where this industry and where this association's going tomorrow and next year and 10 years from now. This is also where you get to network with the people who can put you in those positions and I highly recommend: be involved in your chapters, be involved in governance in ISRI in any way you can, and it will ultimately help you and your business.
John: Well said and I – and I'm glad you said that, you know, being part of ISRI is not a club. Come participate and you'll get the most out of it. The more you put in, the more you're going to get out. That's the old adage, but it's so true. Chuck, thank you.
John: Look forward to the convention and that's it for another episode of Pile of Scrap.
Chuck: See you in April.
John: Thanks buddy.
John: I appreciate it.
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