Ep. 8: Scrap Legends: SA Recycling Part #2

Pile of Scrap Ep. 8: Scrap Legends: SA Recycling Part #2

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George Adams and John Sacco

Transcription

Intro: The following is an original audio series from Sierra International Machinery: Pile of Scrap with your host John Sacco.

John Sacco: So, let's get back to the SA operations because we have a factory in Jesup, Georgia and there are some cultural — the deep South is very different than California. And then, you have operations in Arizona, Texas, Alabama… Mississippi?

George Adams: Yeah.

John Sacco: Mississippi and Georgia.

George Adams: Tennessee.

John Sacco: Tennessee, and the Carolinas… No?

George Adams: No, not in North or South Carolina.

John Sacco: Okay. Yeah, you're Savannah. That’s on the border.

George Adams: Savannah’s in Georgia.

John Sacco: Right. It’s on the border. So, have you had any challenges with the cultural differences and the makeup of people, how they react to certain things? Or, has it been fairly smooth for you?

George Adams: Well, I mean, look it. Certainly, it’s different in the South than in California, but we've had a great experience in Georgia. The — you know, when we bought Newell, we picked up about 500 really great people. And that, you know, we get support and grow that operation. You know, the — our Georgia operations are, you know, some of our best operations that we have. It's certainly, the most joyable — enjoyable acquisition that I've done. You know, it's just been, it's been a lot of fun because there's been a lot of opportunity to do great things there. And so, but we've got some great people. The regulations in the South are — have been — the regulators have been really great to work with and the workforce that we've had — although it's been difficult to hire people as it is all the way across the country, but…

John Sacco: That segues into the people. You know, in our factory, in Jessup, we're struggling to find people. Good paying jobs. I mean, we have jobs paying $25… $30 an hour, and it's really difficult to find it. What are you doing to attract — Where's the hardest place to find the people right now in all your operations? Where do you struggle the most of the —place people?

George Adams: Oh, I mean, look — look it. I'm struggling in Arizona, I'm struggling in Georgia. Those two states probably the most, but I think it's just because there's a huge labor shortage in those states. And so, I always tell my guys when they tell me they can't hire anybody, “if you paid $100, they'd line up out the street.” And so, you've paid $100 an hour. So, but obviously we can't afford to pay $100 an hour. We'll go broke. And so, there's a number in there, but…

John Sacco: I encourage you to pay $100 an hour. You know, you are my competitor down the street.

George Adams: Yeah. So, you know, but you figure, the days of paying $15 an hour or $10 an hour are gone because you've got Amazon or Walmart or different places paying $15. You can't — I mean, in California, you got any McDonald's paying $15 an hour, so you still don't have a choice. You've got to pay a higher wage.

John Sacco: Well, you know, paying the wages, one thing, is having the atmosphere in which the employees — the culture of the business that people come. But, you know, the scrap yards; that's a — that can be intensive labor.

George Adams: Yeah.

John Sacco: And are you finding the actual labor is harder to find? Or, how about the supervisor roles, the safety people, the administrative people?

George Adams: I think the laborers are the hardest to find. The — hire people just because you're paying them more money are probably a little easier to find, but the labor's really difficult. I mean, in Phoenix, you know, we — you know, we usually hire through the temp first and then if we like a guy, we'll keep them. I mean, I can't tell you how many times — temps — there are on two hours and like, “I'm out of here. Okay, this is way too much work.” Or “it's way too F’in hot,” or, “it's way too this,” or, “I'm out of here. It's too dusty.”

John Sacco: You almost melted today here in Bakersfield. How do you do in Phoenix?

George Adams: I know why they call it, “the bake” here, okay?

John Sacco: I got it. All right. So, of all your yards, what's the most unique yard and why? Something different. You know, I mean, I know you've got your crown jewel, Terminal Island, but what's the most unique of all the yards?

George Adams: I don’t know.

John Sacco: Because you’re at them all.

George Adams: I mean, look it. Every yard is different — haves its little idiosyncrasies. But, what is the most unique? I mean, my yard in Anaheim, which is, you know, my first yard, you know, has a big railroad on it. So, we've got — you know, I've got 23 tracks. I probably have five miles of railroad on there. And you know, we actually do work for the Santa Fe where we handle their cars. I mean, so, that yard's a little different. Plus, also, it’s kind of a long, narrow yard. And so, I — it works like a conveyor belt. I mean, that yard has 10 scales in it. So literally, I used to say that I can weigh the customer, I’d weigh the truck, dumped the truck, and by the truck weighed out, I'd already shredded the material. And then I’d weigh out the truck and then I'd load it and then I'd weigh the truck again and I'd put the same stuff that the guy brought in back on his truck to send back down to the harbor. So, but — so, that yard is maybe a little unique, but I don't know that any one of them — I don't know that that really answers your question.

John Sacco: No, but it’s interesting because that’s a completely different aspect where you're handling railcars.

George Adams: Yeah.

John Sacco: Okay, we once talked about a funny story in one of your yards where you have a safety issue with an animal in the South.

George Adams: Oh.

John Sacco: Tell us about that.

George Adams: So, when we bought — when we bought Alter’s yard in Mobile, the — and we were doing the walk of the yard and the guy says, “well, look it, you just wonder — what you got to remember down here is that we have an alligator.” There's a big alligator because at one end of the yard there's like a little canal or slew or bay or whatever you want to call it. It comes right up the yard and he says, “there's a big alligator here. And sometimes a damn alligator comes up in the yard. We got to get the loader and chase it out.” and I'm thinking himself, ‘okay, you've got to be kidding me. I'm going to have one of my guys get attacked by an alligator. This is going to be a really weird workers' comp thing.” But, we've seen this alligator a whole bunch of times. He's still there.

John Sacco: How big is he?

George Adams: Okay. He's like as big as this table. I mean, he's a big alligator. Okay.

John Sacco: Stop feeding him.

George Adams: He's big enough to eat you, that's for sure.

John Sacco: Is he eating scrap?

George Adams: Yeah. No, but he's eating something. We don't really have any stray cats around that yard.

John Sacco: I'd be curious what OSHA would say, God forbid, that guy bites somebody.

George Adams: I know. Exactly. Exactly right.

John Sacco: You can't kill him, can you?

George Adams: No, you can't kill him. You're not allowed to kill them down there.

John Sacco: Is there a barrier you can — well, you have to —

George Adams: They have a fence, but they seem to find a way around them, so.

John Sacco: That’s pretty interesting. We've got a lot of safety concerns, but

George Adams: I know an —

John Sacco: An animal.

George Adams: Yeah, I know. An alligator’s my first —

John Sacco: We have a road runner in our yard, but I don't have any coyotes chasing it, so I'm okay. All right. Let’s talk about SA’s — you know, you are a domestic supplier and you are an exporter of scrap. Okay? You supply to the mills all over the world the material they need. So, let's talk about the export market in respect to what's going on in it. Where's it going? What markets are shrinking, what markets might be growing in the future? So, and then we'll talk domestically because I think people need to understand. They don't understand. I remember when the World Trade Centers were bombed. All of a sudden CNN went crazy because that scrap was going to China. Scrap had been going to China for so many years…

George Adams: Right. Right.

John Sacco: So, people don't know this. I mean, and I think it would be good to give them a little bit of, ‘where's the scrap? Where's your export in your dock? Where's it going?’

George Adams: So, I mean, on the West Coast, you don't have the steel mills. And so, it has to go export. I mean, you've only got one steel mill in California. So, in Southern California, unless you're going to ship all the way to DJ and in Utah or you're going to ship the Commercial Metals in Mesa, Arizona, there's really no other marketing. Tamco doesn't buy that much and Commercial Metals is not going to stretch and pay that kind of money that you can afford to ship the scrap there. So, the on the West Coast is going to go export. So, I mean, it goes to Korea, it goes to Vietnam, goes to Taiwan, Indonesia, Thailand, sometimes the India, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, you know, all, I maybe even shipped to Turkey a couple of times if there's a ship going back that's trying to get back to Turkey, then I've loaded cargo to the Turkey in the last year. So, a lot of different countries from there. And, once you leave California, everything I'm shipping is going domestic. So, we're doing three and a half million tons a year. About 1,000,002 is going — or, yeah, about a 1,000,002 is going export.

John Sacco: You're not exporting out of Mobile or out of Savannah?

George Adams: We’re not.

John Sacco: So, that’s all domestic.

George Adams: Just because the domestic business is stronger than the export there. So, I mean, we have the ability to export out of Savannah, but it hasn't made sense.

John Sacco: Okay so, today's market, you know, the market, you know: up, down, up, down, all that. But, right now we're, we're seeing commodity prices on a lot of different things from paper, plastic, now scrap iron, is down. Is that, you know, when we hear the economy in the U.S. has grown, China came out with some news that they're actually, there's — their slides not as bad or as slowing. Europe we know is not good. So, what's going on in the market for the export? Where's — why is the U.S. so much stronger? Is that the tariffs? What's going on that's creating the U.S. market so much stronger than the overseas markets?

George Adams: Well, I mean, look it, I think the U.S.’s market's going to collapse hard this month, so. I think this month, you know, the U.S.’s market's probably going to come down $40. So, I don't think — I don't know that the U.S. market is necessarily stronger than the export. I think that, overall, the whole world right now is very concerned about the trade wars. And, I think their perception out there is bad. And, I think that people are voting with their feelings on the way they're doing business because everybody's concerned. I know we're concerned of where's it going to go. I still think it's the right thing for the country for — because I think we need to fight on, you know, China stealing our technology. The problem is that — I don't know exactly how you win because I think that, for them, they rather continue to take the technology than…

John Sacco: To make a deal.

George Adams: Yeah, to make a deal. Because, it's the only way they're going to — I mean, you look at our C-17 right? Our, our true carrier, our biggest, you know, heavy equipment trailer. You look at theirs. I mean, the guy who stole all those plans, Chinese nationalists, was in jail. I mean there's no question. He stole it. They have the emails of him sending all the plans to China and you know, China knocked it off. I mean, it looks exactly like ours. I mean, it's not a question that that happened.

John Sacco: So, with the tariffs, aluminum movement has changed, right?

George Adams: That's been really a struggle because China’s tariffs…

John Sacco: So, describe that. Tell us a little bit why. I mean, what did the tariffs do to the Zuora, to the aluminum product, the by-products from —

George Adams: So, China put a 25% tariff on the importation of aluminum — aluminum scrap. And so right off the bat, that took 10, 12 cents a pound right off the top. And so — and at the beginning, it took almost 20 cents a pound. You really just couldn't eat the chip.

John Sacco: Okay so, that was the expert market. Now, what's about domestic consumption of the — why was China the buyer of this product — or the biggest buyer and why not a domestic…

George Adams: So, two things happened at once, okay? Not just the tariffs. One is for a lot of reasons, which I think part of it is the fact that people here abused shipping material to China and I think a lot of stuff — it was really just waste. So like, I think a lot of plastics went there that were just waste. You know, when you can ship to China for $8 to $10 a ton and your disposal is $30 or $40 or $50 at ton here, it's cheaper to ship something as a recyclable to China. So, I think a lot of stuff went to China that were really legitimately waste. I think there was a lot of corruption going on, on stuff that was shipped over that and there was a lot of hazardous waste that was shipped there. And so, depends on —now swung the other way where so before, forget the terrorist, forget any of the stuff with Trump, China was already cracking down on the environmental issues and so they came down hard on material going over there. Then on top of that, you put the tariffs on there and take that things off and it's just double whammy that’s really hit aluminum hard. So, with China…

John Sacco: Was that because it's a lower grade aluminum? I'm trying to get to the point why this aluminum was — can't be consumed domestically and then had to go to China.

George Adams: Oh, it was not that it had to go to China. It's just that there's not enough market here to consume all the aluminum here. And, maybe that's because those aluminum smelters went out of business a long time ago because China took that business and was brought back here. I mean, it's hard to say. You know, what — you have to go back so far. You know, we had, obviously we had a lot more capacity in the past, but then the world changed. A lot of this business moved to China. But, maybe the demand wasn't there earlier when it was here. I don't know. But, the China was taking this material and hand sorting it and now they want more pure materials. So, it has — things have to be sorted here. So, there's a lot of things being done. More mechanized to sensor solars and different things like that that are cleaning it up, that are sending the material to China. But, you know, really, with China backing off and taking aluminum like they have been, then that's just flooded the rest of the world with aluminum. It’s just impressed prices. Prices are lowest they've been in 15 years.

John Sacco: Forecast? Do you see any change? I mean, we need economic growth and countries throughout the world to see, you know, maybe a demand issue, creating more demand than there is supply. But, I don't think we see that anytime soon, do we?

George Adams: You know, as we said earlier, okay. Always an optimist, right? So, I personally think the world is not that bad. And, I think there's just a perception out there that there — it's bad —doesn't seem to be a bottom. If China and the President were to make it a trade deal, I think the perception would change. I think things could go back up again or if they don't make a trade deal, I just think that — I don't think we're that bad. I mean our — I think our economy is still humming along pretty good here in the U.S. and I think that that engine is going to drive the world, so.

John Sacco: Well, we hope it does. I mean…

George Adams: It’s alright.

John Sacco: I mean, we've been through this so many times. You know, there's the downturns, you know, from ’90, ‘91 Gulf War and then, you know, ’98, ‘99 and then 9/11 stopped the world and then, you know, 2008 the world did stop, I think, there for a while because I remember the price of scrap $75 a ton.

George Adams: Yeah, 100%.

John Sacco: I remember those days. I don't really want to have to relive them.

George Adams: I used to sell shred for $60 a ton delivered to the dock. That was that 1981 or ‘82 it was a long time ago.

John Sacco: Yeah. We can't survive on those prices.

George Adams: Yeah, absolutely not.

John Sacco: So, all right. So, that covers the tariffs. So, let's — I'm going to ask Jason Schenker, you know, Jason's an economist. I'm going to do a podcast with Jason and one of the questions I'm going to have for him is, “what's the media's role in the economy? If every day you turn on the TV and they tell you, whether it's true or not, the economy's bad.”

George Adams: Well, I mean, look it. I think perception is a lot of the issue with what’s happening in the world today. People are afraid that things are bad and I think it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. And so, especially for us. I mean, if people stopped buying because they're concerned about it and the prices fall down, then moves less scrap moves. So we handle less volume. We have a double whammy of a less volume and less margin. But, you know, the press — you know, everybody talks about fake news. I don't know if anybody knows what's a real news anymore. And, I think the press only prints stuff that's going to sell.

John Sacco: Well, it affects our industry. See, that the whole thing is the scrap metal, aluminum, copper, stainless steel, new products are being made from our industry for what we're producing. So, if the economy starts slowing, the demand for these recyclable products is going to go down.

George Adams: No. No question. I agree.

John Sacco: And that affects — so, you know, we're a barometer and I think people, you know, years ago, used to call us junk dealers and what they don't really understand is we are the backbone to the industries producing new product without a doubt.

George Adams: 100%.

John Sacco: All right, well let's shift gears a little bit. Let's go back to your family. I wanted to touch base on Adam's Recycling and SA. What family members are in? Which family members are no longer working with the SA group?

George Adams: So originally, you know, the — my two brothers and my sister, the four of us were running the company. My father had retired, the — my sister wanted out. She wanted to go — she wanted to write books. She was the CFO of the company. And both my brothers were engineers. I’m an attorney. So, that was kind of the four of us running the company. My sister wanted out. I mean, she still wants her stock, but she wanted out and she wanted to go write children's books. And so, when we did the Sims merger in 2007 and formed SA, then she was able to get out of the company. But, my two brothers are still in. And then, I have three of my boys working in the company.

John Sacco: You have three boys, 72 yards…

George Adams: No, no. 77 yards.

John Sacco: One son in college. You don't have enough sons, George, to run your yards. There's a shortage here.

George Adams: It's all true.

John Sacco: I mean, well, you did get the one merger with the non-ferrous Williams family and they're creating babies as it is, but we're good. It's a little — Hey, it should be a few years before they're ready to run some of your yards.

George Adams: My grandson will be awhile, so yeah.

John Sacco: Well, maybe one day Cash will be running the show.

George Adams: Exactly.

John Sacco: Well, look, over the years, you know, we've traded — you know, people — for full disclosure, okay? Sierra and SA. We do a lot of business. We do business equipment. We do business. We trade iron every month. We've trade non-ferrous, so we do a lot of business together. We compete hard against each other here in Bakersfield.

George Adams: Yeah.

John Sacco: But, I think, full disclosure, we also understand that there's business to have between both companies and we've kind of crossed that hurdle and I think it's unique. We're in a very unique situation. The fact that you have a 6,000 horsepower shredder…

George Adams: Mega shredder.

John Sacco: Mega shredder… half a mile down the road, yet we still trade iron and you bought a shear for the yard down the street. So, it's really great relationship and I think people need to understand, no matter who your competitor is, there is also cooperations that there's benefits for both companies. I think we've — we've done that a lot and you know, over the years, you and I — I want to go to talk about ISRI a little bit because you and I have something in common. We were both former chairmans of ISRI.

George Adams: Yep.

John Sacco: You got me into ISRI when you made that phone call. I'll never forget where I was. I was in Columbus, Ohio. You called me and told me I had to be the President

George Adams: Of the chapter.

John Sacco: Of the chapter and I had never — I'm like — and I'm afraid to — phone call, “Johnny,” “Yeah, George, what's up?” “You got to be President of the chapter.” I go, “George, I'm just a board member. I've never been a secretary, treasurer, vice president.” And you convinced me and I talked to Dave Williams, then you talked to my dad. And, next thing I know I'm President of the Southern California chapter of ISRI.

George Adams: Yep. 100%.

John Sacco: So, my payback for you was when I was on the nominating committee at ISRI, somebody said, “oh, who do you got could be an officer?” “Well, George Adams.” And you called me. You said, “Johnny, they want me to be an officer.” I go, “yeah, I know. I'm the one who nominated you.” So anyway, so we both been chairmen of ISRI. ISRI is important still to you. I mean, we're going to the BIR in Budapest and we go from there and we're going to go to ISRI in Portland.

George Adams: I still go to all the Board meetings. I still go to all the conventions.

John Sacco: Well, I don’t know. In July…

George Adams: Okay. In July, I’m camping, alright? But I went to this July.

John Sacco: You did. But, tell us why, you know, why — what makes ISRI so important to you? ISRI is the Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries. It's the trade association for our recyclers here in the United States. But, tell us why it's so important to you.

George Adams: Look it, the —we have a lot of operations in a lot of states and we need what ISRI provides. You know, it's —what it promotes safety in our industry, what it does in legislative and advocating for us. I think it's really important, I think ISRI is full of great people. I think the networking, you know, with all the different companies, that has helped me a lot. I wouldn't have been able to acquire a lot of the companies that I bought if I hadn't known the principles at ISRI for so many years. And so, I just think it's a great organization and I think every industry needs a strong trade organization and the only way to have a strong trade organization is that people participate. And so — and obviously after being Chair, ISRI’s got a special place in my heart for, you know, for —make sure it's still continued to be successful.

John Sacco: Well, yeah. I do too. And, I'm at all the meetings as well and I think the opportunity — I think you brought up a great point. And, I think a lot of people in our industry who listened to the Sierra — to our podcast, to the Pile of Scrap, I want them to hear that we had a lot of fun being officers and that it helped your business grow and it’s helped Sierra’s business grow and people who miss that, I don't seem to understand how they can not know that being involved is going to help them. One day, they're going to have a connection with somebody that's going to help them in their business. No question. So, tell us your best ISRI story — your favorite ISRI story.

George Adams: Oh, my favorite ISRI story would be… Oh, I probably have a couple of them, but, when they were — when they nominated me you know, to run, right? So, there wasn't — they hadn't — they didn't run anybody against me. And so, Peter Kramer got everybody together and they did, like, this little skit about all the reasons why I shouldn't be — why I shouldn't be nominated. And so, when he was — so, they said, “is there anything from the floor?” Peter Kramer — he and I already had it all arranged. He comes up like he's mad as hell. I don't know anything about this. And then he proceeds to say, now mind you, you know, he's a great guy and he has — he had ran a couple of times and so, for him to do this for me, I think was even more special. And, so he basically had gotten everybody and then he would say — everybody would stand up and say, “well, I, you know, don't think George should do this because…” then they would tell like some funny story, like…

John Sacco: This is a G-rated podcast, George.

George Adams: But anyway, they each told us a funny story and it was like this little mini roast and it was — it was a really, really special thing. And, they put a lot of time into it. And then, I mean, my roast, you know, after end of Chair, all the work that everybody put into my roast… I don’t know. There’s so many…

John Sacco: Bill Clinton

George Adams: Bill Clinton sitting on stage with Bill Clinton. That was fabulous.

John Sacco: And then you and I behind stage — this is just one of my favorite moments — with Condoleezza Rice and you're making me do my Bill Clinton imitation, my crocodile hunter imitation…

George Adams: She loved it.

John Sacco: She was great.

George Adams: She's a brilliant lady.

John Sacco: Yeah. You know, so, as Chairman, I had George W. Bush.

George Adams: Yeah.

John Sacco: Stanley McChrystal… Those were my two keynote speakers. And, you know, I think that the experiences we had at ISRI over the years is — you can't put a value on it.

George Adams: I wouldn't have missed it for anything, so.

John Sacco: I mean, think of all the people we've met, all the famous — the world leaders from Margaret Thatcher, Bill Clinton, Condoleezza Rice, Bill Bradley, George W. Bush, Hillary Clinton.

George Adams: Yeah. George Bush was fabulous.

John Sacco: Yeah, well, he was really gracious with my children behind stage. And you know, these are the things, again, people who don't want to be involved, they don't — “Oh, it's going to take to my…” Yeah, nobody's busier than you.

George Adams: Yeah.

John Sacco: Okay. You're the busiest person I know, and you still did it and we did it with — you did it and you had a smile on your face. And, we had the best time. And, ISRI was great.

George Adams: I loved it. It was a great ride. Couldn't do it without Robin though. If we didn’t have Robin though, we couldn't do it.

John Sacco: You know, Robin was, you know…

George Adams: She's a rock star.

John Sacco: So, when you were — speaking of Robin and being an ISRI chairman… So, the first year, you're stumbling along, figuring out what's it like to be a chair. The second year, you got it. Next thing you know, you're done.

George Adams: That’s right.

John Sacco: So, I — the first year I wouldn’t call Robin every — I wouldn’t call her, she'd give me a call and she'd be go, “John,” “hey Robin, what's up?” “Is there something wrong?” “No, why?” “I haven't heard from you,” “I don't need to talk to you.” And then you know, that's the first year and by the second year we had scheduled — we had the once-a-week call because it — you learned you had to be part of it.

George Adams: Yeah, I agree. She's fabulous. She does an amazing job for ISRI.

John Sacco: You know, Robin, she'll tell you she's an introvert, so she doesn't really laugh openly. Then, I'll never forget the dinner we had. It was my last dinner — that executive dinner in Washington, D.C. We’re at the Capitol Grill. So, it was just — nobody brought their wives. You always have Johnny and Monica’s with me. Mike Lewis would bring Rita and Jason Young would have Heather and Doug would have Jill and Jerry Sims would have Terry. But, there were no wives and it was just the guys and Robin in the room. And, I'd never seen Robin ever laugh like she laughed that night. I don't really — No. I know this is G-rated, so I can't really tell what the funny things were, but I'll never forget Robin laughing and seeing her cover her mouth because she was laughing so hard. A lot of great times. A lot of great fun. And, you know, we've done — we're going to Budapest together.

George Adams: 100%

John Sacco: BIR. We've — we've taken the kids. I mean we — you know, it's really interesting.    Our—

George Adams: Istanbul. We had all the kids in Istanbul.

John Sacco: Istanbul. But, you know, our families have traveled together. We've done the last two times. We went in the African Safari together.

George Adams: Yep, and then last year was Sardinia and…

John Sacco: All of those this year, really.

George Adams: Yeah, this year.

John Sacco: But, funny story from Africa. I got ridiculed by everybody in our Jeep because when the driver said, “nobody move,” when that elephant looked like it wasn't liking us. You guys are just laughing at me because I was on the side the elephant was coming and then the next day we're out in the bush and you're laughing, still telling stories how I was scared and then you looked down and there was a male lion three feet from your head and you jumped 10 feet in that.

George Adams: Okay, well he wasn't supposed to be there, okay? We were — we had no — we weren't even looking for a lion. We just stopped, okay? And, the flipping lion, I could scratch its head. The elephant was a long ways away from you, okay? It just happened to be coming towards you.

John Sacco: It had to be my side with tusks this big.

George Adams: That lion could’ve reached up and eaten me. Scared the crap out of me.

John Sacco: I didn't pay him enough. Well, George, listen. Well, we're going to end this podcast. It's been — it’s been great. Thank you for your insight to our industry. Thank you for the insight to SA in the issues because I think a lot of people, when they listen to this, are going to be able to relate with what you go through, what we go through, and hopefully that they learned a little bit of something about our industry. And, I thank you for your time. You’re a true gentleman, you’re a true friend and I thank you.

George Adams: That's all right. No problem, but I appreciate it. Thanks a lot for you.

John Sacco: Alright, well that's it for another episode of Pile of Scrap.

George Adams: That’s the funniest name. It's too funny.

Conclusion: This has been a Sierra International Machinery original audio series. Thanks for listening. Please share this podcast and make sure to subscribe.

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