Pile of Scrap Ep. 2: The Blue Bin Myth

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Jason Young and John Sacco

Transcription

John Sacco: Hello. Hello. Hello. This is John Sacco, owner of Sierra companies. Sierra Recycling & Demolition. Sierra International Machinery. This is Pile of Scrap. I’m here with Jason Young from the Allan Company. How do you like the name of our podcast, Pile of Scrap?

Jason Young: It’s appropriate.

John: It can be for our industry at times. Hey Jason, thanks for agreeing to join us. So, to give you a little background, what we're doing with our podcast is I feel it's important that we bring people into the industry, in all forms of recycling to bring their knowledge. And this isn't just about… Look for full disclosure, you don't own a piece of Sierra equipment. We do trade paper, right? We trade OCC, but for full disclosure that, you know, you're an industry leader. You sat on my executive committee at ISRI and I consider you a friend, but a really knowledgeable individual. So, let's get started and in fact, give us the history of the Allan Company. Tell us a little bit about the Allan Company, the history, and where you came from and where you are.

Jason: Okay. Well we started in 1965. It was started by my father, Steve Young, he started picking up a computer tab cards, punch cards. And uh, you know, he basically there, my grandfather worked at a scrap yard in Los Angeles, uh, wastepaper yard on a scrap yard. And, my father became a sub dealer for them. So, because they were a union shop at that point in time, there was really only three big paper stock dealers in Los Angeles. They were a union shop and they had all these little sub dealers who had pickup trucks that would run out and pick up, uh, you know, whatever they wanted, whatever their union drivers didn't want to pick up. So difficult to handle, hard to get to type of stuff. These sub drivers would pick them up, bring them back to the, you know, sort them out when they got to their house or wherever they were at, bring them downtown and sell them. And, that's how it started. He, you know, his garage at my grandfather's house got too full so he rented a little, it would basically be considered a storage unit right down the street here in here in Baldwin Park. We own the property now, but it's about a half a block down. And it was 14624 3/4 was his address and the neighbors were just renting storage units, so they allowed him to start using the yard as their, as like his buybacks. They started buying it at the door with a scale. That's kind of how we started. And then he slowly kind of grew it from there.

John: You know, what’s interesting, my dad started Sierra Bag Company and it all started in a garage, you know, in this industry and the recycling so many people from the first generations, from the old Jewish families back East that started in most of these scrap metal yards started in a garage. So, I think that's interesting, that's fascinating. So, where are you today? Tell us about Allan Company today. What is your scope of business? Tell us a little bit about from the garage to Allan Company today.

Jason: So, Alan Company today operates 11 facilities between Fresno and San Diego. We also have a finished product business, which we sell finished rolls out of. We also have a warehouse and operation in commerce. We also have partners, we're partners in other operations, the owners of Allan Company and from partners and other operations around Los Angeles, other scrap yards as well as the document structure company.

John: So, you're in the scrap metal, evil metal, Huh?

Jason: We do a little bit of... we do scrap metal or what happened was this. In the late two thousands, we were primarily paper stock dealers and CRV, which we got the CRV program…

John: And that's California and Redemption Value. That's the cans and PET bottles and glass for those who aren’t from California.

Jason: And uh, what happened was our paper business started to decline because the newsprint, print media was kind of going away. And so, we were looking at other avenues to get volume through our yards and so we started doing on non-ferrous business and then about three years later started doing ferrous business through our yards.

John: It's come full circle. We started, you know, in the bags and what have you. And then at our scrap yard we started taking paper. So, you know, it's funny how we all do things. Of course, the equipment company, that's Sierra International, that's a whole different animal. So you, okay. You also have trucks that pick up the blue bins, correct?

Jason: I do not pick up the blue bins, I service the blue bins for cities that pick it up.

John: Okay, so blue bins come here?

Jason: Yes. Different locations. But here as well. Yeah.

John: Okay, and your different locations. All right, well I want to get into this because I think so many people you've run up to, “Oh, oh, you're in the recycling business. Oh, I recycle my this and my that,” and you know. “Okay, well that's great.” Yeah. “Oh, it must be a great business.” Oh, what? They don't know. And so, my question here is the Blue Bin Myth? Let's talk about the blue bin in respect to what percentage of material put in the blue bin is actually recyclable versus ‘it's just got to go to landfill that to end of it’.

Jason: You know, it really depends on the city. We have cities that vary between about 20% all the way up to about 45% waste in the material.

John: Is that a socioeconomic issue?

Jason: Partially that. Partially it’s how often they service the bin, you know, biweekly or weekly. Also, do they charge for a second trash bin? Or, because a lot of cities won't charge for a secondary recycling bin, but they will charge for a secondary trash bin, so people just order a recycling bin and throw their trash in. It's pretty commonplace, so it depends a lot on the policies of the city and what happens. Social economic is another issue.

John: Tell us about that real quick. From the more fluent neighborhoods to the lesser neighborhoods, what's the difference in that? Who has the better product to recycle?

Jason: Generally, the more fluent neighborhoods we'll have a little bit cleaner stream. But the, I mean, when you get into the less affluent neighborhoods there, you know, a lot of times you have multiple families in the same home, trashcan space is limited. So, it ends up spilling over into the blue bin.

John: Okay. So, with that said, let's talk about things that are and are not recyclable that everybody thinks is or isn't. A pizza box? Somebody gets a Domino’s pizza. Tell me about that.

Jason: Okay. Well, I mean, if there's no grease on it, it's perfectly recyclable.

John: What Domino's pizza doesn't have grease on it?

Jason: I mean, you know, a lot of them put a sheet of wax paper underneath it so the grease doesn't go through to the box. But in general, you know, they're difficult to recycle. Can be done, but difficult for sure.

John: Okay. So, give us some other things that you know from your experience people put in the bin that they think is, or stuff they're not putting in that they should put in.

Jason: You know, I think that a lot of times, especially when it comes to plastics, it's where this is really the biggest issue. You know, I mean it really is a problem with the plastics. You know, we have the Pacific Garbage Patch in the Atlantic and Pacific Ocean. You know, those things are, it's a significant issue that we're bearing the burden of. Um, but I also think that they're lumping a lot of different commodities together that really aren't all bad. Like, like for instance, you know you have PET and HDPE bottles.

John: Tell the listeners a PET bottle is your water bottle, Pepsi, tea…

Jason: PET is a soda, a water bottle, a normal one. It's polyethylene, ty, whatever. I don't remember the term for it, but it's a #1 bottle. Those are readily recyclable and there is a market for them and they're sold and they're bought and sold on a large scale basis. HDPE which is more like your milk jugs and maybe your oil containers and stuff like that. That is, also there's a readily ready market for it and it's so bought and sold. Now, the problem is when you get into the other resign types, the 3 through 7s, either there is a market but there's not enough volume of the resin type or there is no market for certain resign types. The one big mistake I think people make is they say plastics, right? Plastics are bad. Well it's not all plastics, it's just some of the commodities, you know, when they get into some real specialized manufacturing marketing gimmicks, you know, a lot of times they're mixing polymers of plastic together in a, in a bottle to make it look neater or cooler, or you know what I mean? And you know, and you see that stuff. I mean, like for instance, I'll give you a perfect example, an aluminum can that just came out. That, uh, I think it was Pepsi came out – or Mountain Dew – and it's for video gamers to reseal, but it's got a plastic top on it and an aluminum can.

John: Okay, so that's problematic. You're contaminating the product. So…

Jason: Exactly! It's not a good recyclable for plastic and it's not a good recyclable for aluminum.

John: So, what's the solution there? Okay, so good analogy. So, people that “I've got my aluminum can,” and you know. Yeah, it's got the plastic. So, what, what is the challenge?

Jason: The challenge for that is they need to design the product for recycling in the first place. And it's something we talked about at ISRI a lot of times is it's really the most critical aspect of what is happening.

John: So, the design, there's, so you take the basic because they don't deal with the end consumption of it. They think, well, we got a recyclable plastic top and obviously aluminum we’ll marry the two, it's gotta be recyclable. But in the end, it's creating a problem because it's a downgrade on the aluminum.

Jason: It’s either too difficult or not enough volume of it or it's…

John: That'll change probably pretty quick, won't it?

Jason: I think that that's really the message that needs to be put out there. I mean, everybody wants to solve the plastic pollution issue, which you know, I think is a huge issue for not only our country but the world. And I think that, you know, the solution isn't to ban everything, but I think it is to make sure that the manufacturers design it correctly. You know what I mean? Design it with the idea of it's going to be recycled at the end of it.

John: So, design for recycling is something that is hugely important for… And everybody wants to be green. And again, here's the classic case…

Jason: I don't know if I agree with it. Not everybody wants to be green. There's a whole section of people that are just designing stuff for marketing, so they're designing this specialized aluminum can or PET bottle that's designed for a certain section of the industry, video gamers or athletes or whatever it is, right? This is, “I'm designing this for them,” but they don't take into account when they're designing this fancy new bottle for them or can or whatever it is, the design for recycling and I think that needs to be brought more to the forefront when they design that stuff.

John: Who's going to bring that message to them Jason? Where? Is it the people like yourself who are in the recycling industry who have to handle it, and there's the diminished value of this commodity after the amount of money you have to spend just to get it to a consumer?

Jason: I think that that message needs to be brought forth by the government. Our government in general, if they really want to clean up issues like the Pacific Garbage Patch or, you know, plastics going to landfills, whatever you want to describe it, I think that's really what needs to happen is they need to sit down and say, you know, we need to go to the manufacturer of these product and say you can manufacture it in a different type of container and still get your same, you know, you're still gonna have your same sales and you're still with the same marketing, but it can be recycled in the end. I mean a Capri Sun pouch is a perfect example: it's aluminum and plastic with a straw glued on the outside with a cellophane wrap. I mean, it's just a nightmare.

John: Okay. So, so people, so that's the item that people think they're doing their duty by putting it in the recycle bin, but yet it's just garbage.

Jason: I mean there's, it's got so much going on, you know, it's, it's not even close.

John: See, I think that the education of the public in regard to what is and what isn't truly recyclable and why, because people don't understand what cross contamination is. As recyclers, as people who handle all sorts of materials. Sierra does. Allan Company does. We understand. You don't mix certain materials because it's a downgrade and that's the problem with glass. Glass is a nightmare. Yeah. And of course the competing virgin product for glass is sand.

Jason: So, there's no value in it.

John: I don't think we're running out of sand anytime soon to you.

Jason: But I mean the truth of the matter is glass is readily recyclable as long as you don't mix, you know, like a ceramics or window glass cause the different type of glass. If it's just bottle glass, you know, wine, beer bottle.

John: Okay. So, talk about that from the clear, amber, and green bottles. What happens when they all get intermixed? Is it okay they can recycle it now?

Jason: They can recycle it now. They can either make a darker color out of it or they will optically sort it and try to get to the clear out, make it a clear brown and green color. So, they can do it both ways.

John: So, let's go back to the blue bin. If you could educate the public on that blue bin. Give me two or three key points of what you want the public to know about what to and not to put into the blue bin.

Jason: You know, if you're asking me, and this is my opinion.

John: Yes!

Jason: The public should, uh, if they don't know they should throw it out. When in doubt throw it out. Cause if you're not…

John: It's funny you say that, not because, see as recyclers we understand that because what they don't understand is how much it costs. You know, look, I've been in a lot of huge MRFs $20, $30, $40 million MRFs across this country and they have these million-dollar optical sorters that sort the different papers, the different plastics and all of this. But what does it cost per ton, give or take? If you could put a range?

Jason: It depends on the stream. You know, if this stream is extremely clean, it's cheaper, and if it's extremely dirty…

John: From a dirty end, how much does it cost on a dirty end?

Jason: You know, you're probably looking at $130 to $140 a ton, maybe $150. It all depends on your freights and everything where you're going for your market.

John: Okay, so let's just $100, we're dealing with commodities now that aren't even worth $100 a time.

Jason: Well, I mean, now here's your problem. Well, not only that, but the other issue is that over the last two years in that industry, we've had real issues with the in-markets either disallowing shipment or making the shipments have to be cleaner, right?

John: So, when this market changes in the values of commodities what's going to happen? The consumer's going to pay for this because the city's going to have to start charging more because you just don't do this for free. The commodity doesn't bring the revenue to offset the cost. So is everybody’s household going to start getting charged more for this or are cities going to abandon recycling programs and just go straight to the landfill until commodity prices come back, what's going to happen?

Jason: I think it depends on where you live in the country. I think in California; most cities will end up charging more for their curbside. I think if you live in other areas where recycling isn't as important, they may stop the programs altogether. It's just a function of the desire of the community. You know, in California, no, we have kind of mandated, you know, recycling laws and recovery rates. So it's hard for the cities and the counties to say we're not going to do this anymore. But you know, but they go back to the public and have to charge them more. On the other side of that, you know, I really look at the whole trash waste industry. I mean, you live in California. What is your, what has been the increase in your water and electric bill, your utility bills at your house from 10 years ago to today?

John: Significant.

Jason: I mean 100%? 200%

John: I mean it's significant.

Jason: It's California, it's expensive. And if you look at the trash bill, it's been pretty stagnant for about 15 years

John: That’s going to change.

Jason: And that's gonna change. You're going to see an increase. I don't think it's going to go up 100%, but it's definitely going to have probably 20% or 30% increases in your waste bills. I don't think that the public's going to have this great outcry that everybody, everybody thinks is coming.

John: Well, cause it's going to be a minimum per household. All right, so let's talk about something. Everybody always asks the question when we talk about this. Where do the PRT bottles go? Where do the milk jugs go and where do the cans? So, walk somebody who would listen to this, who's not in our industry. Walk them through, after you get the plastic, you sort it, you bale it, who's taking it and how are they make a new product from it?

Jason: Okay, so PET for instance gets ground and flaked and pelletized and made into either, they can make it into PET bottles again depending on the process line, or they can make it into different sorts of PET sheets, which go into making it like strawberry boxes and that kind of stuff. They can go either direction. It also can be made into fiber to make clothing. The HDPE goes into similar aspects to that where it'll go into a little bit different, unique, a little bit different items going back into HDPE for sure. And you know, they also make a sheet out of it and the packaging.

John: Okay. And cans, just similar?

Jason: Aluminum cans are probably the purest form of recycling. They go, almost all of them go directly into aluminum cans. So, they go from cans to… It just gets remelted because what happens is it's cheaper to use the aluminum can from recycling than it is to use virgin metal because they have to add a bunch of alloys to the virgin metal and it's already in the regular aluminum cans so it's a very simple, it's just, you know, they don't really have to do it. It's much simpler process.

John: How many lives can you get out of that? In other words, an aluminum can, you can remelt it. At what point… how many times can you take a can before there's nothing to left to it?

Jason: I don't know that there is an end life to aluminum cans. They can continue on being recycled.

John: What about cardboard and paper items?

Jason: Cardboard and paper. It's the, they call it the, I've heard it called the seven or the nine times rule. It can be recycled seven to nine times depending on who you're listening to.

John: Okay. So, somebody who goes to a fast food restaurant and they get a napkin, that's made from pretty much recycled fiber. Right?

Jason: Not all of them no. A lot are, but not all?

John: What paper is being used to make those napkins?

Jason: It depends on the manufacturer, but most of those are made out of like an office pack. So, like your office recycle bin would be made into that sort of stuff or print shop material, that kind of stuff; much cleaner fiber.

John: What's the landfill costs? And so, here we are, we've talked about getting it to the end now when you sort out everything and you've got 50%, 40% waste, now that's got to go to the landfill. What's the landfill fee? Who's paying for that?

Jason: It depends on the contract with the city, but sometimes it's the recycler or sometimes it's the city.

John: And for LA here and the different counties, what's that cost per ton? [

Jason: Well, I mean right now you're looking probably around $45 delivered. You're somewhere between $40 and $45.

John: So, that's not so bad. I know in New Jersey and in New York much higher,

Jason: It's much higher!

John: It's over a $100 a ton. So if you have the space, it's going to cost less. And the East coast, they're out of space. That's interesting because people, you know, you say when in doubt throw it out. It's a lot cheaper to spend $40 to go to a landfill than it is to sort it, spend $130 to sort it, and then on top of that you have to spend $45/$50 to go to the landfill. So, it's costing $200 a ton for something they think they’re recycling, which it could really only cost $40-$45.

Jason: But it's not that they think it’s being recycled; it is being recycled. Okay? And it is being processed. It's just, it's costly. It's expensive to do. And you know, if the decision is made that we want to recycle, you know, when you say we're going to recycle everybody goes, “Yeah, Recycle!” When you say we're going to recycle and it's going to cost you X, people go, “Ooh…” You know what I mean?

John: But that's the thing, I think that's what's important. People have to understand there's a huge cost to recycling and the value of the commodities today do not represent enough value. I mean the cost of doing it is way more than the value of the commodity and I think people need, they can be educated about that and be a little bit more selective with what they're putting into the blue bin too, which would help reduce the cost.

Jason: Exactly.

John: How do we educate people? How does that happen? Who's, who's in charge of helping to educate? Do we start at the school system? Do we start when kids are in kindergarten and all the public schools and teaching them, this is what you put in the blue bin and this isn’t.

Jason: There was this really interesting thing that I saw, which was the US EPA is trying to come out with a standardized recycling program for the country, for the blue bin, which I really think would be very helpful. And that would be, if that happened, then the advertising from everybody in the country would be the same. Right now, you have all these different cities and counties and across the country that have that accept different items in their bins. A lot of those are legislated or lobbied for certain items to be in there to declare them recyclable to, you know what I mean? If they had an actual list, a federal list like this is what goes in the blue bin. I think it would make a lot of sense. The advertising would be so much simpler because then everybody would be told the same thing. It's not going to be you live in, you know, Bakersfield. So, you're told to put this in, and I live in a city and I've told to put something else in there, you know?

John: It’s standardized. You know, I noticed when I was in Europe a few weeks ago and in this town, they had five, six, seven different bins for food waste, for garbage, for plastic, glass, cans. And what I saw that was fascinating; I saw people actually looking and properly putting the right item in. So, I found that I go, well somebody's been educated to do that and that's where we need to go. And I think people who hear this podcast, we'll be able to, to spread the word a little bit. Put the right things in the blue bin. All right. So, lastly before I want to get into, we get a few minutes left here. The changes in the market conditions and everything. What's the next 5 to 10 years look like for this style of recycling?

Jason: For the blue or for just the industry?

John: We’re on the blue bin because every household is familiar with that, what's the future of the blue bin recycling program?

Jason: I think the future is going to look very similar to the way it is now with, you know, I can really speak to California clearly I don't really do that business across the country and in California I think it's going to look similar to what we have now. And I think the commodity markets will return. You know right now we have a very strange blip in the market, which as you know, the world's largest consumer of recovered material basically banned a lot of it or restricted a lot of it from coming in, which has forced a market collapse. And you know, and it's not the first time we've seen a market collapse and it's not the first time that I've seen a market collapse from an overseas government intervention. You got to remember back in 1993 the German Institute of the Green Dot Law. In which everything had to be recycled. Everything had a green dot. They pushed so much material on the market it collapsed. The worldwide market for all scrap commodities,

John: Supply and demand.

Jason: Well, not scrap, I should say paper commodities. It just, they added so much supply to the stream, it ruined the market everywhere and it ruined it for the better part of a year and a half. And then the market or maybe two years and then it recovered. So, this is a very similar instance, it's just instead of them pushing more on the market, they basically have pulled the consumption off the market and it'll take a year or two for it to recover.

John: Okay. So recyclers like you, processors across the country, you're having to talk with cities and counties. Every one of you, this I do know this. How's the reception? How's it working when you go to the cities and say, “look, here's where we are.” How is that working?

Jason: It's varied. You know what I mean? It just depends. Some cities are very in tune with it and understand, and some don't. You know what I mean? And it's just, you know, some people don't understand. They have the “it’s my recycling, why would I not be paid?” and other cities have the, “yeah, I understand what's going on. I've heard it. I get it. We need to change what we're doing here.” So, it just depends on what city you’re dealing with.

John: Well, it's a change. As long as these commodity values are here, the changes come in. And it’s like anything, we have to adapt.

Jason: But it's not just a commodity value. You have to understand the cost structure is very expensive too. It's not, it's not just about the sales in. At the same time the sales have been decreasing our operating costs are going up because we're having to sort more. We're having to, think about it, you're having to make a cleaner product and the market's coming down, so you're adding labor, man hours, and…

John: More costs to the lesser value product.

Jason: Production, or equipment, and you're getting less money. It's just really a horrible wave that just keeps hitting you every day that you've got to. But I think we need to address that with, you know, the market needs to understand that, and the cities do. And I think for the most part they're getting there. It's just it's hard, you know, I mean, they're used to being paid and now they're being charged, and it doesn't, you know, it doesn't feel right.

John: The city budgets are tight everywhere.

Jason: But it doesn't, it doesn't seem right. You know what I mean? “I should be paid!”

John: But the reality is that the commodities values, there's no secret what values of commodities are, you know? Everything is out there. All right, well Jason, I think people who listen to this well will garner a lot of information. You know, you and I have been friends for a long time. We both went to USC. Like I said, you sat on my executive committee when I was a chairman of ISRI, and we've had a lot of fun. Tell us a fun, crazy story you have. I've got one, but I want you to go first and tell us some fun, crazy story, you know, in the recycling industry. Something that you still think about might bring a smile to your face.

Jason: Oh, well that's a tough one. Um, I'm having a tough time remembering one at this moment.

John: Alright, I’ll go. Okay. You remember when former Vice President Al Gore, we were at a meeting with former Vice President Gore and then Senator Barbara Boxer. We're in this a, we're at a fundraiser and, and our trade association has done fundraising, doesn't matter. Republican, Democrat. We have been there, you know, because our cause is important.

Jason: And for people that are the Congress people who are interested in recycling of course is who we're looking for.

John: Absolutely. And so there we were in the room and I'll never forget there was, I was sitting next to Vice President Gore and Senator Boxer was next to him and, and uh, we were going to start talking to him. Vice President Gore said, oh no, wait a minute. He goes, I want to go around the room. I want everybody to introduce themselves. So I went first, John Sacco Sierra, I got 150 employees and we recycle and do equipment. And then my uncle Tim was sitting next to me who was an attorney and he says, Hey. Then he came to you and I'll never forget it. I'm Jason Young with the Allan Company and we have 320 employees and we recycle just a gazillion tons of paper a year. And he looked at you and he said, “Well you can recycle paper.” You remember that you looked at me like… I still laugh at that story. I think it came out wrong for the poor guy in all defense to him, but you know what? that's a classic story to me. Former Vice President didn’t know you could recycle paper.

Jason: Oh, well yeah. Well, one of my favorite ones John I think you are aware is the bluefish story. I mean it's a good story. We're on the ISRI board and it was our final meeting and John still has the picture in his office.

John: This is what happens. So, we were in Officer Media Training and uh, so as an officer of ISRI, so we were set down, we were given this thing about interviews, how to do interviews. And so we went through this class and then this guy interviewed us and this dude was brutal. I mean, it was vicious. I'm like, I'm sitting there and I'm like, well, this guy's SOB. I mean, this guy was mean. So we all did. There was myself, Jerry Sims, Doug Kramer, and Mark Louonne. So, I went first as Chairman and then Chair Elec was Jerry Sims. So Jerry went and so we're all watching it. We all had to watch everybody's video. There was Jerry, I mean, he was killing it. I was just envious of how good he was. All of a sudden, this guy asked him a question and Jerry looked at the interviewer and reporter and makes a blowfish face. Everywhere we went from there, the blowfish, we started texting each other, the blowfish and Jerry Sims had the blowfish. That was well, that was great and that lives, and I do have that picture, you know, God bless Jerry, he suffers from Parkinson's and I don't think he want people to know, but you know what? He's one of the most beautiful people on this planet.

Jason: Super Nice Guy.

John: Yeah. And it's just, it's just terrible. Last funny story I've got a couple of years ago, me and my son came down and we went to a famous steakhouse, I forget the name by Santa Anita.

Jason: The Derby.

John: The Derby. Okay. So he had to cut weight for this tournament. He was 164 and so we got down there, and we'd go to the steak house and the bread, this garlic bread comes out and it was the most amazing garlic bread I've ever had in any restaurant. So, John Carlo takes this little bite and you just see him, “John Carlo, you can't have this.” And so we see him sneak a little piece and then he sneaks another one and then the dessert comes and the cheese cake was amazing. The poor kid, he couldn't help it. He had a cheesecake. So, we get back to the hotel that night; he gets on the scale and he's 2 ½ pounds overweight. So, there we are, he's on the treadmill from 9:45 at night until 11:00; sweating and gets in the Jacuzzi trying to lose weight. The next morning, he wakes up, he's still half a pound overweight; has to run down and get on that treadmill. You almost disqualified him, Jay. Thank you for that.

Jason: I'm sorry.

John: I love that. It just, it was the look on his face in the morning, you know,

Jason: They kept bring out food and he kept going “Ooh”.

John: And he was just pink because the kid loves the eat. So that was classic. Jason, thank you for joining me.

Jason: No problem.

John: Thank you for doing this podcast because I believe we're going to be able to help people understand the recycling industry because it's a whole lot more than the blue bin and it's a whole lot more than scrap metal. It's wide and it's vast and your interview here, your input is going to help educate people and I thank you so much for being here.

Jason: Appreciate it John.

John: Thanks buddy.

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